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About voices 
2nd-Jun-2010 09:57 pm
I just re-read a manga where the hero hid his identity behind a mask and a wig and his love interest realized it was him from his voice alone (and he spoke only one line or two then). (She kept it a secret so he was still clueless and thought she didn't know.) It makes me wonder why most tokusatsu heroes could get away with not being recognized while not really doing anything to disguise their voices, or, for that matter, their speech patterns (no, I don't think simply changing from 'ore' to 'watashi' really counts). (Ultras don't usually speak much, and when they do, they seem to be pretty selective as to whom they direct their voices to, so okay, they are unlikely to get caught out by their voices alone.)

A little related, I discovered, to my surprise, that I really really missed Mebius's voice when I first heard his voice in Ghost Rebirth. I suppose not watching Mebius the series for a while would do this to me. And I still think I would miss his voice/role as Mebius even if I've been watching other shows Igarashi is in. While other Ultras (those with no human hosts or forms, I think) might have gotten their voices changed (for whatever reason), I just can't (and don't want to) imagine anyone else voicing Mebius. (But that's just my personal feeling. Obviously Tsuburaya can do anything to their characters.)
Sailor
Comments 
2nd-Jun-2010 04:22 pm (UTC)
You just pointed out something that akways bugged me about superhero/tokustatsu shows, or even anime for that matter.
I remember when I was a kid and watching Sailor Moon how puzzled I was at their "transormation" and how nobody ever recognized them.
With superheroes or tokusatsu is even more evident.. how can people who are up,close and personal with the hero just not recognize him or put together the coicindences?

2nd-Jun-2010 05:12 pm (UTC)
From what I read somewhere, Sailor Moon transformations were supposed to be magic, so they could not be recognized by normal humans, or anyone else for that matter. But I don't know how accurate that information was.

As for tokusatsu heroes, I suppose I would try to cope with them not being recognized if there are magic or supernatural forces (come to think of it, nearly every show has one or both of those) involved somehow. But there are some shows where the heroes simply put on costumes and show up to fight the bad guys, and no one would think to connect the heroes to the people (who often try to obscure their real abilities) who just left the scene for some unexplained reasons. It's exactly as you said: how could the people who closely interact with the heroes never suspect a thing? Their love interests are especially guilty of this. How could they claim to love (or be attracted) to the heroes without knowing the heroes' other identities? In most cases, I really think the voices should give the heroes away, at least.
2nd-Jun-2010 05:44 pm (UTC)
But still... some people can have similar voice to another. And some people usually wouldn't expect to think that their loved ones can suddenly becomes a different person-- a superhero no less. Even if they recognized the voice. They can convince themselves that it's not possible and fooled themselves. Things like that can happen.
2nd-Jun-2010 06:27 pm (UTC)
True, people can have similar voices. (Still, even then, they probably don't talk in the same way, but, okay, this seems more like a guesswork on my part.) And, yes, their loved ones not wanting to accept reality (that their guy or girl can be a superhero) can happen as you said. I think I would have been more satisfied if there is any evidence of them (on screen, because otherwise I have no way to know if these people aren't simply not at all observant) thinking about the hero being the guy/girl they know and then dismissing the idea as not possible.
2nd-Jun-2010 07:42 pm (UTC)
Yeah...
But then not all people have sharp ears. and half the time you tend to mistakenly remember voices if you rarely hear them. Thinking back... on some of the KRs, perhaps one reason would be that... when you were fighting, it gets hard to recognize or take notice of people's voices since you'd be thinking more about keeping yourself alive rather than things like voices. Or that the loved ones notice some and only manage to piece together the facts only near the end. Or things during a chaotic situation.

Unless the character actually sits down and took a moment to think back on the past incidents, stuffs like this could easily be dismissed and forgotten. Or went unnoticed.

I didn't quite remember like for say... Sailormoon. But I think at times Usagi didn't manage to figure out Tuxedo Kamen was Mamoru cos that to her, Mamoru was annoying and T. Kamen was a gentleman thus Mamoru can't be Tuxedo Kamen. Since I think (either in manga, anime or live action) she actually noticed that their voices sounded the same-- or did I mistake some other series...

I don't think any of the characters in any toku not being so observant but perhaps they only notice some things about the hero in bits and pieces, it probably be taking them a while to figure things out even when the fact was staring at them on their face.
3rd-Jun-2010 04:07 am (UTC)
Okay, I'm too cut and dried on this topic. I acknowledge all your points and will try to address those I don't completely agree with.

- I'm mainly talking about the moments the heroes (in costumes) and their loved ones have some quiet, alone time together (not remembering specific examples, but something like this does happen), not when they are trying to fight to stay alive.

- I don't mind people (the loved ones, mostly) not noticing or considering who the heroes might be in the first ten or twenty episodes, but almost at the end of the series? Where all the strange coincidences are piling up? That seems a bit much. But okay, most people don't react the same way. Still, I wish to see more figuring out and/or more of their (the loved ones') thought processes in general.

- Sailor Moon, well, I don't quite remember much about that part (whether Usagi notices that Tuxedo Kamen's voice is the same as Mamoru's). But I understand that: when one identity (almost always the civilian one) annoys the love interest, he/she could not possibly be the same as the other much more cool identity (even if their voices might sound similar). In the case of toku, though, the heroes usually are liked (if not well-liked) in the civilian identities...
3rd-Jun-2010 04:33 am (UTC)
Hmm...
Then again I mostly had KR fandom in mind here. (Especially Heisei since I mostly watched all of them) Because situations like these don't usually happen since either the loved ones already knew from the start... or that the hero didn't interact much with other characters to get that kind of situation.

I could relate though with Ultraman. I mean, how much toilet breaks you can have especially during important battles without causing suspicion? But I think usually they don't show it much and then later have the loved ones reveal that they actually noticed and had some suspicion about the identity of the hero and stuffs. Airtimes and such.

I don't know... I don't usually feel anything off when watching my toku so I rarely think things like this. Especially in general.
3rd-Jun-2010 04:36 am (UTC)
Or that they never considered that the giant ultras can become small sized as them and walk around with them. So they never give it a thought. *shrugs*
3rd-Jun-2010 05:01 am (UTC)
Exactly. But strangely these people (especially in recent series) seem to be able to pieces together clues (perhaps because they interact more with the hero in his non-transformed mode) than the people in other toku shows, where the heroes are human-sized. Oh well, perhaps I'm not supposed to take all this seriously since target audience of most toku are kids...
3rd-Jun-2010 05:04 am (UTC)
I don't watch much recent ultras lately so I dunno...

But in case of mebius hmm... I think that's not a question huh? Because Mebius doesn't really tried hard enough to hide his identity.
3rd-Jun-2010 05:17 am (UTC)
Ah, by recent ultras I just mean the ones you seem to talk about? Like Tiga? Sorry if I'm mistaken, though.

Mebius hasn't tried hard enough, that's true, but he's a rookie, and I think he seems really uncomfortable lying to (or concealing the truth from) his teammates, especially when he begins to care for them a great deal.


Edited for typos.

Edited at 2010-06-03 05:28 am (UTC)
3rd-Jun-2010 05:30 am (UTC)
Oh, on Tiga... Rena only knew it near the end of the series. When she started noticing Daigo behaving strangely when the last enemy appeared. And Iruma... it's mostly because of Yuzare's actions that she had started to notice/remember much later. I didn't remember if the other members noticed though.

It was similar for Dyna and Gaia, at which if memory hadn't failed me, their identities only get revealed when they got KO-ed during the last few episodes or something. Forgot how did Gaia's identity got revealed.

By recent... I was thinking about the ones after Gaia aside from the N-project and the ones after Mebius. Even Cosmos I was watching it on and off and didn't understand when did Cosmos's identity got revealed.
3rd-Jun-2010 05:46 am (UTC)
No, I'm sure other members didn't notice. ^^;

Gaia's identity got revealed on live TV, so the whole world (or at least Japan) knew who he was. It's my favorite finale, but I'm not sure if it's because of the reveal on TV thing.

As far as I know, there are not many series after Gaia: Cosmos, the N-project, Max, Mebius, and Ultra Galaxy. So it seems you've seen most of them. :)
3rd-Jun-2010 05:59 am (UTC)
Hmm~ so that really leaves me with Cosmos, Max and Ultra Galaxy then. I didn't remember watching Nice or if Nice actually made into a series. Cos sometimes I went to shops and saw some ultras I didn't recognized and then I wonder... did I missed some new series.

Oh wait... that reminded me about some of the other stories, aside from Zearth. Cosmos movies that had him fighting with other ultraman (vs Justice et al) That made me a bit confused if there were other newer series.
3rd-Jun-2010 06:16 am (UTC)
Oh, so you haven't really seen Cosmos, sorry for the spoiler then.

There seem to be many Ultras with no series of their own, but yeah, if I've seen an Ultra I don't recognize (or new one(s) in other Ultra movies), I would have wondered if I've missed anything, too. ^^;

I forgot about Nice, and actually don't know anything about the series other than it seemed to be some type of commercial. Would want to watch it one day, though.
3rd-Jun-2010 06:20 am (UTC)
Don't worry about it. I actually watched Cosmos in bits and pieces. Because I had to fight with my nieces over the TV channel. XD I had to rewatch it properly later. It still airing anyway on my subscription tv.

Regardless, spoilers don't bother me much so that's fine too.
3rd-Jun-2010 07:14 am (UTC)
Yeah, I'm trying to be careful about spoilers and stuff, but glad to hear that it is okay.

Oh, and I completely forgot about UltraSeven X as one of the Ultra series after Gaia. ^^;;
3rd-Jun-2010 07:19 am (UTC)
Yeah, that too.
3rd-Jun-2010 06:45 am (UTC)
OHAI fancy seeing you here. XD

Nice was just commercials. IS Cosmos still on Astro? :O
3rd-Jun-2010 06:50 am (UTC)
Took a moment for you to see me. XDDD

Yep, Cosmos still airing at Astro Ceria. And some time later they seemed to want to air Mebius second movie with Ultra Brothers and TDG. But look like the series coming to an end dy... but for sure they gonna repeat the airing again.

They did that with Tiga, Gaia before.
3rd-Jun-2010 06:53 am (UTC)
I remember catching one ep of Tiga on Ceria some time back.

How is the dub quality beyond Gaia? I go to Speedy's and wince at all the VCDs' back covers. Haven't had the courage to actually buy any, the blurbs are so mangled.
3rd-Jun-2010 06:57 am (UTC)
huhuhuhuhu~

Cosmos dub was kinda like Gaia also... Didn't remember for Zearth. Mebius movie dub (the first one) was actually quite okay overall. At least better than some of the Kamen Rider dubs on TV2. Kabuto dubs made me roll in laughter last time.
3rd-Jun-2010 07:01 am (UTC)
Nexus one... ummmm.mmmmmmm... last I remember when they show it on tv3 was a bit too kiddified for me. Though I actually don't mind much for most ultra series... for Nexus, not much. Considering that Nexus and the N-projects aren't really targeted to kids actually. Plot too serious.
3rd-Jun-2010 07:14 am (UTC)
T-They kiddified Nexus? *gulp*

Yes, Nexus is kind of srs bznz...and yet TPC decided it would be fun to try airing it at 7 am. Nice work gaiz. *golfclap*
3rd-Jun-2010 07:22 am (UTC)
I know they aired Ultraman The Next on Ceria before, but I missed it. Dunno bout the VA.

But if they kiddified that too... I dunno. XO
3rd-Jun-2010 05:57 am (UTC)
Forgot about Cosmos: IIRC, a few episode before last Fubuki just up and says to Musashi that he knows Musashi is Cosmos (to prevent Musashi from doing anything stupid like sacrificing himself, most likely). I think he did discover about Musashi in a pretty early episode (the first underwater episode), but later events seemed to contradict that so I'm not sure. But that finale seems rather confusing, true. If I could locate them, I might post up some episode summaries I used to write for this series (they are very incomplete, though).
3rd-Jun-2010 04:57 am (UTC)
True, it's most likely not Heisei KR that I'm thinking of, since, as you said, the loved ones usually know from the beginning. Besides, I don't think (Heisei) Kamen Riders really care to keep their identities a secret (except for a few series).

I'm glad that the toilet breaks excuse thing usually go away before it's outworn its welcome then. ^^; And yes, you're right about the loved ones revealing later that they know. (But the writers usually didn't go into how they discovered who the hero was, so I was still a little disappointed.)

These things are more like something that bother me when I sit down to think about them, or when it's episode 49 (made up example) and people close to the hero are actually surprised when the hero's identity is revealed.
2nd-Jun-2010 07:13 pm (UTC)
Is Ghost Rebirth worth watching? I honestly don't even know what it's about, I haven't been keeping up with anything.
3rd-Jun-2010 01:11 am (UTC)
The serious business version: It's visually arresting. As a prequel to Ginga Densetsu, expect that sort of over-the-topness and then some! Colours are a bit strange in the bits they very likely green-screened. Plot's based round the old 'resurrect-great-evil' schtick. Ultras kick ass. And you get a glimpse of the Land of Light, so I say give it a shot. Try to get both parts before you watch, though, or you might end up cursing and kicking like I did before the story resolved itself.

The not at ALL SRZ BZNZ version: WATCH IT. WATCH IT. CLIFFS EXPLODE. BATTLES ARE FOUGHT MID-AIR. MEEBS AND MECHAZAM ARE UNWITTINGLY GAR. HIKARI OVERTURNS HIS TROPE.
3rd-Jun-2010 04:17 am (UTC)
MEEBS AND MECHAZAM ARE UNWITTINGLY GAR

If that is what I think it means, I agree completely. :) (Read someone (a fan, not anything official) said he seemed like he might be Zamusha reincarnated (not that I know how possible that is), and that makes me all the more enjoy that whole interaction.)

HIKARI OVERTURNS HIS TROPE.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here, though. But the apparent change of heart couldn't fool me even for one second, and I thought no one else (viewers or other Ultras) was fooled for long (if at all) either.
3rd-Jun-2010 06:41 am (UTC)
I paraphrase heavily, but: reading through a Ginga Densetsu book I ganked recently, one of the people involved says they meant to use that relationship to demonstrate how much of a bitch war could be.

...Weeeeeeell yeah, but either I can't get these slash goggles off, or the dude(s) didn't actually see all that lovely MANLY SUBTEXT they slotted in too. XD

The trope? You know, that thing where Hikari keeps on getting captured/possessed by armourish things so someone can rescue him? I mean I know he's not a fighter, but ARGH. COME. ON. As for the apparent change of heart, yeeeeeeeeah, I was crushed. Bad Mweeble. ^^;;;;;;;
3rd-Jun-2010 07:11 am (UTC)
Sure sounds like a book I would want to read some day. Well, I suppose when I can afford it.

I don't even have slash goggles on and I'm seeing all that. ^^;;

Oh, that trope. I see it now. :)

I actually saw that screencap before, but forgot. Thanks for linking it again. :) I guess I'm mostly an optimist, as far toku shows are concerned, so I was sure it must be some kind of a plan (though I admit I still not quite sure what kind). Besides, I didn't think he was truly capable of betraying them or anything like that.
3rd-Jun-2010 07:19 am (UTC)
It is an interesting piece of literature, seeing that it dissects the designs a little and is filled with staff interviews at the end. Skirts around the "Where In The World is Mrs. Seven" issue, as expected. Awful Western typography though. Someone thought it would be a good idea to put Ancient Magick Mystical Alchemy fonts in the Ultraman movie. OTZ

At that point, it was obvious that Something Was Up. But not knowing what the Something was knocked me for a loop. And it was so blatantly OOC (...hmm, that should have been my cue) that it inspired pure unbridled CAPSLOCK RAEG at the screen. TSUBURAYAAAAAAAAAA DAMN YUUUUUUUUUUUUU WAT HAF YU DON NAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
3rd-Jun-2010 10:18 am (UTC)
It would be nice if they actually answer that question (and actually, things about her in general). Perhaps there might be more info if the new (rumored?) series actually comes out...

Well, I know I couldn't take that kind of suspense (even though I know all would be well eventually) so I watched the two Stages back to back. ^^;;
3rd-Jun-2010 04:10 am (UTC)
madsqueeble already said it much better than I could, but definitely yes. :)

I haven't been keeping up with much either, and just started to watch all the prequels because I wanted to watch the Ultra Galaxy movie.
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